Don't Eat Anything With A Face

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Food FinalCleanWeb

Illustration by Thomas James

Wednesday, December 4, 2013

According to a 2009 poll, around 1% of American adults reported eating no animal products. In 2011 that number rose to 2.5%--more than double, but still dwarfed by the 48% who reported eating meat, fish or poultry at all of their meals. In this country, most of us are blessed with an abundance of food and food choices. So taking into account our health, the environment and ethical concerns, which diet is best? Are we or aren't we meant to be carnivores?

  • Barnard 90

    For

    Dr. Neal Barnard

    Clinical Researcher & Author, 21-Day Weight Loss Kickstart

  • Gene Baur official 90px final

    For

    Gene Baur

    President and Co-Founder, Farm Sanctuary

  • Masterjohn official 90

    Against

    Chris Masterjohn

    Nutritional Sciences Researcher & Blogger, The Daily Lipid

  • Salatin 90

    Against

    Joel Salatin

    Farmer & Author


    • Moderator Image

      MODERATOR

      John Donvan

      Author & Correspondent for ABC News

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Barnard 90

For The Motion

Dr. Neal Barnard

Clinical Researcher & Author, 21-Day Weight Loss Kickstart

Neal Barnard, M.D., is Adjunct Associate Professor of Medicine at the George Washington University School of Medicine in Washington, D.C., who guides numerous clinical trials investigating the effects of diet on body weight, chronic pain, and diabetes. Barnard’s most recent study of dietary interventions in type 2 diabetes was funded by the National Institutes of Health. He has authored dozens of scientific publications, 15 books for lay readers, and has hosted three PBS television programs on nutrition and health, ranging from weight loss to Alzheimer’s prevention. As President and Founder of the nonprofit Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Barnard has been instrumental in efforts to reform federal dietary guidelines. He also leads programs advocating for preventive medicine, good nutrition, and higher ethical standards in research.

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Gene Baur official 90px final

For The Motion

Gene Baur

President and Co-Founder, Farm Sanctuary

Gene Baur, President and Co-founder of Farm Sanctuary, has been hailed as “the conscience of the food movement” by Time magazine. Since the mid-1980s, Gene has traveled extensively, campaigning to raise awareness about the abuses of industrialized factory farming and our system of cheap food production. His book, Farm Sanctuary: Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals and Food (2008), a national bestseller, is a thought-provoking investigation of the ethical questions surrounding beef, poultry, pork, milk, and egg production. It describes what each of us can do to promote compassion and help stop the systematic mistreatment of the billions of farm animals who are exploited for food in the United States every year.

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Masterjohn official 90

Against The Motion

Chris Masterjohn

Nutritional Sciences Researcher & Blogger, The Daily Lipid

Chris Masterjohn pursued a career in health and nutrition after recovering from health problems he developed as a vegan by including high-quality, nutrient-dense animal foods in his diet. He earned a PhD in Nutritional Sciences from the University of Connecticut in 2012 and currently researches the physiological interactions between fat-soluble vitamins A, D, and K at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. He has published six peer-reviewed publications and has submitted one manuscript for review. He also writes two blogs. The first, The Daily Lipid, is hosted on his web site, Cholesterol-And-Health.Com. The second, Mother Nature Obeyed, is hosted by the Weston A. Price Foundation at westonaprice.org. The opinions expressed in this debate are his own and do not necessarily represent the positions of the University of Illinois.

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Salatin 90

Against The Motion

Joel Salatin

Farmer & Author

Joel Salatin is a full-time farmer in Virginia’s Shenandoah Valley. A third generation alternative farmer, he returned to the farm full-time in 1982 and continued refining and adding to his parents’ ideas. The farm services more than 5,000 families, 10 retail outlets, and 50 restaurants through on-farm sales and metropolitan buying clubs with salad bar beef, pastured poultry, eggmobile eggs, pigaerator pork, forage-based rabbits, pastured turkey, and forestry products, using relationship marketing. Salatin holds a BA degree in English and writes extensively in magazines such as Stockman Grass Farmer, Acres USA, and Foodshed. He is the author of eight books, including Folks, This Ain’t Normal: A Farmer's Advice for Happier Hens, Healthier People, and a Better World (2012). The family’s farm, Polyface Inc., achieved iconic status as the grass farm featured in the new New York Times bestseller The Omnivore’s Dilemma, by food writer guru Michael Pollan, and the award-winning documentary film Food Inc.

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Declared Winner: For The Motion

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Voting Breakdown:
 

59% voted the same way in BOTH pre- and post-debate votes (19% voted FOR twice, 36% voted AGAINST twice, 5% voted UNDECIDED twice). 41% changed their minds (2% voted FOR then changed to AGAINST, 3% voted FOR then changed to UNDECIDED, 12% voted AGAINST then changed to FOR, 4% voted AGAINST then changed to UNDECIDED, 15% voted UNDECIDED then changed to FOR, 5% voted UNDECIDED then changed to AGAINST)*breakdown for those voting the same way twice adds to 60% due to rounding | Breakdown Graphic

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    287 comments

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    • Comment Link VFran Tuesday, 03 December 2013 16:01 posted by VFran

      I am very appreciative of the work of Dr. N. Barnard and other MD's who have taken this path. I am horrified by the cruel treatment of farmed animals and do not think this can be healthy to those who eat these animals either. Also - I suffered from health problems as did my son and since eating a plant based diet all of these issues have retreated or resolved. My son had Ulcerative Colitis and was told he would have to be on medications his entire life and he would eventually succumb to cancer of the colon. Since eating a plant based diet his GI specialist told him she cannot find any trace of his illness. I do not preach about being Plant Based but I am very grateful for the pioneering work of Dr. Barnard and invite those who don't want to eat abused animals or those who do have health problems who want to look around at alternatives to look into what Dr Barnard, Dr. Joel Furhman, Dr. T. Colin Campbell, Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn are saying.

    • Comment Link Isaac Tuesday, 03 December 2013 15:52 posted by Isaac

      Two things: 1) our species evolved eating a meat/fat based omnivorous diet for millions of years. 2) there is no traditional "vegan" culture on earth. And there never has been. There is a traditional culture that does eat a neerly 100% meat based diet with no health consequences: the Inuit.

    • Comment Link taletotell Tuesday, 03 December 2013 15:47 posted by taletotell

      Stop using words like moral and ethical. They are meaningless when it comes to consumption of natural resources. Use sustainable, healthy, natural.
      Based on evolutionary studies the human body developed around consuming meat. It is a commonality among the most intelligent creatures.
      Your concern about eating faces revolves around your Hyper Active Agency Detection Device: an adaptation to keep you on your toes when there might be a predator around. The presence of eyes nose and mouth, the presence of a brain, is the result of a long series of adaptations. There is nothing wrong or right inherent in their consumption.
      If you think it is a bad idea to eat meat for social reasons that is good. Lets hear it.
      I look forward to this debate. i hope to be surprised.

    • Comment Link Lisa Rufus Tuesday, 03 December 2013 15:47 posted by Lisa Rufus

      Generally, the narrow-mindedness of the vegan ideal as shared in many of these comments boggles my mind. I understand that you don't want to see something suffer, but to ignore the workings of an entire eco-system because death makes you uncomfortable is just not the kind of thinking that will help our planet! What is the least harmful method of food production to the ecosytem? THAT is the real question, because all living things depend on a healthy ecosystem. In order for a vegan diet to provide proper nutrition significant amounts of supplements and monocrops (i.e. soy) are involved. Too feed condensed populations there is no question that agriculture (controlling the elements of food production to make it more efficient) is the key, so the next question, which form of Agriculture does the least harm to our environment? (Or in a very well designed system actually rebuilds soil and increases the fertility of the land?) That is the kind of question we need to be asking. As well the argument that all killing is cruel and immoral is also very narrow and flawed. It's completely ignorant of the reality of nature. Death in and of itself is not cruel or unjust. It will happen to all living things. Methods of death can be cruel, but slaughtering an animal properly and quickly is much kinder than the death mother nature would provide in the wild (starvation, hunted by predators, disease etc) especially in the context of independent farms and butchers. We have stop assuming that the only option is the industrial model. Food production is at the heart of democracy and freedom. Veggie or omnivore, we need to opt out of industrial ag and support food production methods that heal the land and create resiliency in our food supply.

    • Comment Link CARMEN ROBERTS Tuesday, 03 December 2013 15:19 posted by CARMEN ROBERTS

      We are not designed to be carnivores. From the beginning of the world we were created to be herbivores. It is written in the Bible, the book of Genesis 1:1, 29-31. Not only humans were designed that way but animals , too. Believe it or not.

    • Comment Link Shyam Howlin Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:46 posted by Shyam Howlin

      Eating animals is inhumane. Even the animals who are raised ethically and fed grass still have to come from somewhere. Cows are forced to give birth to beef cattle year after year without any thought for their health. Try having a baby every year for 10 years and then be killed because you no longer can. People speak against factory farming but the demand for meat is so great that organic free range farms are just not profitable so they just don't happen. There is nothing ethical about eating meat.

    • Comment Link Eliot W. Collins Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:31 posted by Eliot W. Collins

      Everyone can eat and use whatever products they want. It's really none of my business. I do not care. I get a flu shot (made from eggs) so I am not a vegan. I eat Jell-O® (made from various animal by-products) so I am not even a vegetarian.

    • Comment Link Enid Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:25 posted by Enid

      One more thing. I would change the title to "Don't eat anyone with a face." After all, one of the arguments for being a vegan is that animals are sentient beings and experience life. Yes?

    • Comment Link Enid Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:21 posted by Enid

      Hey all you vegans - I've read several comments and you guys are awesome. The comments are intelligent and make great arguments as to why humans should be vegan. All of you who are former animal and animal by-product eaters have told very inspiring stories. And to all of you who still eat animals--cow, pig, chicken, turkey, et al, there is no humane "meat" raising because in the end, the animals are trucked to their death. There is no humane slaughter--this is an oxymoron (with emphasis on the moron). If you don't care about your diet or animals, please investigate why going vegan is the right thing to do for our planet. We all have to breathe the same air, drink the water and eat the food. Factory farms create pollution. Get hip.

    • Comment Link Christine Schaffer Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:20 posted by Christine Schaffer

      The only way to live sustainably, feed everyone and not destroy what is left of the planet is a plant based diet. To compare ourselves to Paleo people is stupid as there were billions fewer of us. ThePaleo diet is very expensive, only for the few who can afford it. Removing factory animals from the scene would help all people, the enviornment to say nothing of the animals. The dude who quotes the Bible clearly isn't reading the King James version which admonishes humans to eat only "green" meat.

      Plant eaters do not usually die of heart diseases...

    • Comment Link Starla Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:19 posted by Starla

      We don't go about killing animals the right way. Meat free for five years now and so happy about it.

    • Comment Link Adam Dave, MD Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:04 posted by Adam Dave, MD

      So appreciative and supportive of your work, Dr. Barnard. Now if we can only get policymakers to end subsidization of animal products so that junk food isn't cheap. This would have almost instantaneous effects on the obesity and disease epidemic facing the country and the globe. I have written an essay on the Farm Bill as it relates to Obamacare and would very much like to send it your way. P.S. thanks again for reviewing my book, "The Paradigm Diet." You're the best!

    • Comment Link Trudy Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:01 posted by Trudy

      The poison of today with people's health is the diet that they eat. Lack of healthy nutrients is not only their dilemma but on top of that, it is the chemicals, drugs, heavy metals, hormones, antibiotics, and what else? BSE a neurological disease in cows can be transmitted to other species including humans. One of the primary ways of transmission is that the cows are fed bone meal and waste products from other cattle infected with the disease. It is now illegal to feed beef based products to cow but the industry found a way to circumvent the rule so now they are feeding them what they call chicken litter.
      It is a mixture of manure, dead chickens, feathers and spilled feed,
      cheap food products for cows. So think how healthy and appetizing, when you eat your next burger that is the product of manure, feathers, and one third of the chicken litter concoction. That is what is called spilled feed. Cows that eat chicken litter eat also beef products intended for chicken. The same feed that spurred Mad Cow Disease outbreak. The BSE infection agent can also be passed through the chicken manure as well.
      Cows are ruminants herbivorous. I grew up on an organic farm in Canada and I know. Their is only one way of being and staying healthy and especially today, and that is a vegetarian diet. No dead flesh in your plate, is a perfect way to start. Give it a try, the whole world will be surprise to see you, full of energy and vibrancy all of a sudden. That is what I did 40 years ago. It was the perfect answer for me to stay away at the same time, from the drug prescription deluge that is happening in the US. Find your way to God's herbal medicine and then you will have achieved health as he intended for you to have. Health is your wealth !

    • Comment Link Rich Russom Tuesday, 03 December 2013 14:00 posted by Rich Russom

      I refuse to eat anything with a face! I turned vegetarian 6 months ago! Not only for my health, but I don't want to eat dead Animals anymore! ~rich.

    • Comment Link Anne Tuesday, 03 December 2013 13:54 posted by Anne

      This is for Peter who wrote about God and Noah. If you finish the paragraph it says, "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood." I just love how the pro-meat eaters try to twist everything around. Our planet is dying. One of the worst offenders is factory farming. Eating a plant-based diet would make sure there was enough food for EVERYONE, especially those in countries where they grow most of their crops to feed livestock, while their children grown hungry. Wake up people!

    • Comment Link Allison Tuesday, 03 December 2013 13:50 posted by Allison

      I've been vegan for 8 years, never been sick in all that time. I am very active and super healthy. The only supplement I take is a B12 patch, it's not expensive; and I was also B12 deficient when I was eating animal products, so it's just me. My roommate started eating a vegan diet with me and in 6 months was off all of his medications, his doctor was amazed. So, that is proof for me. Also, I have never felt deprived or resentful about eating this way. I eat so many delicious meals it is so great. It is like a new tasty and better world opened up for me; before I was eating basically the same meals for 20 years, the same 7 dinners, maybe with a little variation, the same types of fruits and vegetables. Now I eat so many delicious things I am so happy there are so many great recipes to try and cook books.I don't eat processed food either, I eat a whole food plant based diet. There are so many nutrient dense foods I wasn't aware of before. I'm grateful there is so much information available. There is a myth out there that peopIe need to eat animals and that it is normal, necessary and natural, nothing could be further from the truth. When I eliminated these harmful things from my diet, I immediately looked and felt better. l weigh 115 and am 50, people tell me I look 40, I walk my dogs for an hour and a half every day and then rollerblade for an hour. I have more energy now than I did 20 years ago. Bottom line, no murder is humane.There is no defense for exploiting and killing animals when you don't have to. There is more than 30 years of research to support that a plant based diet is the healthiest. I feel great knowing I am not contributing to violence towards animals and am living the best life I can.

    • Comment Link Sanaya Tuesday, 03 December 2013 13:39 posted by Sanaya

      Eating animals is barbaric, disconnected, lustful, bloodthirsty, selfish, cruel, violent and of a lower, 3rd dimensional vibration where the precepts 'Conquer or be Conquered', "Dominate or be Dominated", "Control or be Controlled" underline and guide the majority of thinking on this planet. We now have the opportunity to move into and embrace the 5th dimensional frequency of love, oneness, compassion and respect for all -this includes the animals, all creatures, and Mother Earth. It is not necessary for violence, cruelty, corruption, pollution and sickness to be part of our food production or a part of our lives, in any way. If you think, feel and act with your heart, than love can and will create a heaven on Earth in all aspects of our lives. "RECONNECT"

    • Comment Link Michael Weisensee, MS Tuesday, 03 December 2013 13:33 posted by Michael Weisensee, MS

      Besides B-12 (created by bacteria), there are no nutrients in animal-based foods that cannot be better obtained in plant-based foods. The idea that a whole-food, plant-based diet requires a vast amount of supplementation is simply wrong. Take a B-12 supplement once a week and get some mid-day sun, and you will thrive on a WFPB diet.

      The idea that we naturally crave meat is also wrong. Give your hungry 3-year old a bowl of raw, unseasoned fruit and a bowl of raw, unseasoned meat/fish/fowl (truly paleo) and see which he/she chooses. It's the plant-based seasoning that make meat/fish/fowl palatable. Now give that same choice to your cat (a true carnivore) and you will notice a very different selection. Humans are carbohydrate eaters. That's why the tip of our tongue senses sweets, not protein. The opposite is true in cats. That's why we have amylase (the enzyme that breaks down starch) in our saliva. Carnivores have none. I could go on and on, but the biological fact is that we are designed from mouth to colon as plant-eaters. Can man exist on animal foods? Sure, a disease-filled existence. If you are an American, you can see for yourself, just look around.

    • Comment Link Jeanne Tuesday, 03 December 2013 13:27 posted by Jeanne

      This January will mark two years, for me, on a whole foods plant based diet. Up until that time I had been battling chronic migraines, seasonal allergies with occassional bronchitis. I also was overweight and had issues that came with that. I had battled depression all my life as well. I can't say its right for everybody...but it was right for me. I also do not get carsick....something that has plagued me all of my life , as well. I had always believed it was an inner ear problem. I work in a school environment and was constantly bringing home sickness. I have not been sick these past two years and am healthier now than I have ever been. I am also not a hippie or an athiest. ;-) . I am a Christian. There are Christian diets out there that are very similar to my diet. The Daniel diet being one of them. Not all of my family are vegan...but that's okay...I love them anyway. :-D

    • Comment Link Kevin Schmidt Tuesday, 03 December 2013 13:22 posted by Kevin Schmidt

      " Are we or aren't we meant to be carnivores?"

      That is the wrong question to ask. We are OMNIVORES, not carnivores or vegetarians or vegans.

      We can eat almost everything other animals eat, including the animals. But just because we can doesn't necessarily mean that we should eat almost everything.

      Here is the real question that should be asked:
      Should we eat just to survive or should we eat to thrive?

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